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One CA Podcast is here to inspire anyone interested in traveling to work with a partner nation’s people and leadership to forward U.S. foreign policy. We bring in current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and give recommendations for working the ”last three feet” of foreign relations. The show is sponsored by the Civil Affairs Association.
Episodes
Wednesday Jan 17, 2024
Wednesday Jan 17, 2024
Today, we welcome back Curtis Fox, author of Hybrid Warfare: The Russian Approach to Strategic Competition & Conventional Military Conflict, which is now hot off the presses and in stores.
We discuss the book's concepts and how they apply to current events. This is part one of two, so sit back, enjoy and come back next week for part two.
Link to Biography: https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtis-fox-mba-pmp-59b74223/
One CA Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Please email us to either speak or guest-host at capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Today's music is from the Disney film COCO and is a tribute to Ana Ofelia Murguia, whom I once met at a San Diego Latin Film Festival. Ana passed away this week at age 90, so this episode's music is her tribute.
Murguia: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/01/movies/ana-ofelia-murguia-coco-dead.html
Link to music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJfoPUOUWBw
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Transcript for I&II
Introduction
Welcome to the One CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. One CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes.
00:00:41 CURTIS FOX
This is Curtis Fox.
00:00:43 JACK GAINES
Curtis! Jack Gaines, how you doing?
00:00:45 CURTIS FOX
Doing good, man. You're very punctual.
00:01:07 JACK GAINES
Russia and Syria is a great example of a combination of, as you say, hybrid operations evolving into the full scale kinetic operations.
00:01:35 JACK GAINES
For the listeners? Sure. I can't even pronounce them. And I did read them, but it would be better for you to describe them. I mean,
00:01:42 CURTIS FOX
I mean, I tell you what, I speak Russian and they're still hard for me to pronounce. Maybe the first term we can go into is Maskarovka, because this is one of the Russians' favorite terms. And that literally just translates to camouflage. This is the hidden hand approach that the Russians have in history done so well. They don't want these things to be directly attributable to Moscow.
00:02:06 CURTIS FOX
Just literally means activity. And what they mean by that is all of the little things that you do in the background to try to frustrate a target nation's institutions from responding to the intervention that you're conducting. You do not want them to be able to get forces in the field. Preferably, you'd have them stay in their barracks. And you want to set up blockades that frustrate public transit and encourage people to stay in their homes. Or maybe come out in mass protest, preferably in front of city hall or a police station so the political apparatus is frozen. And then vignettes at most is surprise. But it's surprise of, you know, like speedy movement. And what they mean by that is if they can use soft forces to rapidly deploy and establish some sort of a foothold on a limited number of key objectives. then they need the rapid maneuver of heavy ground forces to entrench those gains. This was the secret sauce that did so well in the Crimean annexation back in 2014. So the VDV, the Russian Airborne Services, those are really the elite trigger pullers of the Russian armed forces. And once a number of Spetsnaz battalions had advanced far enough up roads and blackaded positions coming into the peninsula, The VDB immediately used a number of secured local airstrips to move in forces in mass. And they spread rapidly throughout the peninsula and secured all those gains.
00:03:43 JACK GAINES
You know, it kind of reminds me of Bosnia and Kosovo during the conflict and how it has resulted in Kosovo having a Bosnian shadow government in part of the border towns.
00:03:53 CURTIS FOX
There's some real similarities in the way Russia continues to manipulate and maintain influence in Georgia. and the Serbian approach in Bosnia. That's probably where they get a lot of these ideas from. If you look at Georgia, there's an autonomous enclave called South Asatia, and then another one called the Bukazia, which is right up on the coast of the Black Sea. And the Russians would have us believe that these enclaves had ethnic Russians in them, that they would have you believe that they don't want anything to do with that government. And they want to remain segmented off and autonomous from the country with no trade and political independence.
00:04:33 JACK GAINES
I remember Lithuania had that issue, too. They were arguing that there are Russians in Lithuania that want nothing to do with Lithuania. I remember them posing the same argument there. So it must be a form of foothold mentality where they're saying, look, these are our people.
00:04:49 CURTIS FOX
Sure. Yeah. Vladimir Putin actually talks about it as a genuine tragedy that these are Russian citizens that have been scattered across the globe and isolated from the government in their mother country. Never really offers so many resources to come home if it's really that big of a tragedy. And they don't seem to want to migrate to Russia on their own dime. But this being a civil affairs podcast, it's probably also worthy to point out something the Russians do very well. is they figure out what influencers have their hands on which buttons. They're very good at understanding which individuals have access to what information and which individuals run X, Y, and Z departments and who would it be good to make friends with.
00:05:36 JACK GAINES
Right. They have good influence operations. They know how to map people and their networks and reach. So your book is really large.
00:05:44 JACK GAINES
book is really large.
00:05:48 JACK GAINES
And I appreciate it. I mean, it's what, 500 pages?
00:05:52 CURTIS FOX
I tell you what, my publisher made me take out three appendices and an additional chapter. I actually wrote a chapter. It was a comparative glance on U .S. doctrine to highlight how is the Russian apparatus, the political apparatus, how do they actually create authorizations for these interventions? And then, you know, how do they actually deploy military force? from the available units that they have in SOF. And then I compared that to how we would do it in the United States. So that whole chapter was removed. And then I had separate appendices on the Soviet arsenal that Russia inherited in 1991, including the nuclear ordinance.
00:06:35 JACK GAINES
Huge maintenance cost. Oh, my gosh.
00:06:37 CURTIS FOX
my gosh. And then I had an appendice on the state procurement programs, GPV 2020 and 2027. And I go through. All the hardware that they've been purchasing over the last 10, 12 years, you know, for Army, Navy, Air Force, Strategic Rocket Forces.
00:06:53 JACK GAINES
So are you going to push those into a second book or are you going to make those online dependencies for people who just want to learn more about it?
00:07:01 CURTIS FOX
So those are on the website right now. You can actually go read those. And, you know, if you're, I mean, you need to be an Uber nerd to get into them. But if you want to know which electronic warfare systems Moscow is running in Ukraine right now, it's all there.
00:07:15 JACK GAINES
Well, if I'm uber lazy, could you send me the link so I can post it on the website?
00:07:19 CURTIS FOX
For you, anything.
00:07:20 JACK GAINES
I'll put it in the show notes. That way people can check it out.
00:07:23 CURTIS FOX
I'd love to pivot from that and talk to you a little bit about some of the units that they actually need to execute these strategies. And the reason it's such a relevant conversation is because a lot of these units have been hollowed out now in the current war, the Russo -Ukrainian War. Oh,
00:07:41 JACK GAINES
wow.
00:07:44 CURTIS FOX
has taken such extraordinary casualties that it was combat ineffective by the end of last year.
00:07:51 JACK GAINES
Is it kind of like that old saying about soft? The best time to train a soft person is 10 years ago? The best time to train a new VZV person is 10 years ago? Is that what they're facing right now?
00:08:03 CURTIS FOX
It's a little bit of that. The other issue that they're running into is they just have nobody they can recruit into the ranks. They have an inverted demographic. in their country, and so they just have no healthy young people that can serve as soldiers. So they can go through and round up the homeless, and they can go through the prisons, and they can round those people up. They have a vicious, vicious narcotics crisis in Russia, and they can put people who are addicted to substances in the armed forces, and you can throw those people in as cannon fodder, but they don't perform the soft mission very well. And they certainly don't make good elite light infantry. So they're in a real pickle as far as deploying elite forces go. And you need those elite units to conduct hybrid warfare. So maybe that's a good starting point.
00:08:51 JACK GAINES
Are they recruiting other people than the White Caucus people from the steppes so they don't have a race issue that's also blocking it?
00:09:01 CURTIS FOX
It's entirely possible if they get desperate enough that, yeah, they'll start channeling them into elite units. I don't really have any direct evidence that they wouldn't have put people from an Asian disposition into, you know, let's say the 10th Spetsnaz Brigade.
00:09:14 JACK GAINES
Right.
00:09:15 CURTIS FOX
But the big one to watch are the Chechens. The ruling family in Chechnya is allied with Vladimir Putin, and they're very willing to contribute troops. But one of the unspoken realities about that is that the more Chechens are organized into, you know, the Volstok and Zapad battalions and pushed into foreign wars. The fewer Chechens there are at home to cause trouble for Moscow. And there are other ethnicities that start getting uppity. Moscow will absolutely adopt similar tactics.
00:09:46 JACK GAINES
Sure. Now, the trick is, though, the surviving Chechens that are battle -hardened to come back to Chechnya, what's the risk that they'll flip the nation back towards independence?
00:09:56 CURTIS FOX
It's definitely on Putin's mind. But the goal is, first off, those individuals are loyal to the family and basically rules Chechnya through a puppet governor, let's say. It operates almost as an autonomous vassal state. And so they would first have to fight their own people. And then the second issue is that Moscow has absolutely no qualms about sending a special missions unit down there to round somebody up in their home. I mean, you can go to their Wikipedia page and they're open and honest about saying they still conduct operations in Chechnya all the time.
00:10:35 JACK GAINES
Actively hunting people down. Actively hunting people down.
00:10:37 CURTIS FOX
people down. And they're on the southern end of Chechnya. And those guys will have no problem going up there and getting them. Okay.
00:10:45 JACK GAINES
Okay. So it's dangerous, but it's unlikely. It's less likely right now. Yeah. Unless Russia comes out of this Ukraine conflict so battered that everyone starts seeing the blood in the water. Right.
00:10:57 CURTIS FOX
The one thing that could create a real separatist movement in Chechnya is if Kardarov and his cronies decide that they're just going to switch allegiances. Sure. If he decides that Putin is weak or that serving Moscow is no longer in the family interest, that would change everything.
00:11:14 JACK GAINES
Okay. So we were talking about the development and evolution of hybrid warfare.
00:11:20 CURTIS FOX
Yeah, yeah. We got a little off track.
00:11:24 JACK GAINES
That's okay. We'll just play as is. It's fine.
00:11:27 CURTIS FOX
Well, and, you know, Chechnya is a good place to start for this because the first and second Chechen wars were so taxing on Russian and international standing and resources and manpower and so embarrassing for Moscow that they realized they needed to come up with another way to do this. They needed a way that would limit their investment, limit their risks, limit their attribution, and let's say stack the deck in their favor so it was more likely that they could slant the outcome to victory.
00:11:57 JACK GAINES
And they've had a long term intelligence practice. And so do you think that a lot of their successes in intelligence were just incorporated into a more military style that they just weaponized it a little bit more? to what we want, our desires for Russia.
00:12:29 CURTIS FOX
Russia. So let me kind of outline the framework here, I guess, and I think I'll answer your question. Sure. There is a ruling class in Russia of about 200 individuals. Right. Those 200 individuals, they call themselves Slovy. Most of them were educated during the Soviet era. The education system collapsed when the Soviet Union collapsed and it was never rebuilt. And so their talent pool that is constantly getting smaller and dwindling. A lot of these guys are into their mid -70s now. Some of them, like Sergei Lavrov, came from the Foreign Service, but a lot of them are simply KGB men like Putin.
00:13:08 JACK GAINES
So these aren't long -term families of Russia? No. They're not the Vanderbilts.
00:13:14 CURTIS FOX
Yeah, they're not oligarchs, for sure. They're only oligarchs in the fact that they wield in fun.
00:13:19 JACK GAINES
Yeah.
00:13:20 CURTIS FOX
Basically, the promise that Vladimir Putin made to the Russian elites when they started this project, when he came to power as president, was that, look, if you back me, everybody's going to do very well. We will all get wealthy. But if you oppose me, that's a great way to die.
00:13:37 JACK GAINES
Here, let me prove it. Here's an example over here.
00:13:40 CURTIS FOX
And he is not the return of Joseph Stalin. He is not that powerful. He is Russia's most important power broker. Sure. He gained power by playing all of these different factions off one another. Sure. A lot of the oligarchs that, you know, were Russian Soviet officials that seized state assets after the Soviet Union collapsed. Right. And that's where they got their money. Those individuals are outside the rule and click, but they absolutely realize if they oppose the rule and click, they could wake up in the morning, you know, slip on some bullets in the shower and that'll be.
00:14:15 CURTIS FOX
So hybrid warfare, it evolved simply because the people that make decisions in Russia understand how military intelligence works to a certain extent. And they know how military intelligence is supposed to support active combat. They're basically strategic reconnaissance assets for each brigades in particular are Russian military district. So think of Marine Force Recon or maybe the 75th Ranger Regiment. Their job is to fill first and foremost an information role, an intelligence role. And they all actually report up to the GRU, which is the Military Intelligence Service. And the GRU is actually the Russians. Most effective intelligence agency. It's the only one that wasn't catastrophically reorganized after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's insulated from all of those post -Soviet shakeups. And so they've maintained a steady course as an institution. Then the SVR, the Foreign Intelligence Service, which is kind of like the Russian MI6. So the GRU is traditionally responsible for planning these interventions. They plan the Russo -Georgian War. They plan the annexation of Crimea. They're probably planned. They weren't Donbass. And we know they planned Syria. And they did pretty well in planning all those things because that's their job.
00:15:37 JACK GAINES
And it's also because they're an intelligence organization. They handle people. They have networks of sources in the country that they, whether by pay or by patriotism or other methods, they have them in their pockets. it makes it easy to move from just what we think of as intelligence as just passively collecting and reporting for other people to decide, to actually manipulating the environment so that it is open to the type of operation you want to achieve, or even to achieve a foreign policy goal without operations. So I could see how that would build into hybrid warfare.
00:16:17 CURTIS FOX
I think you're hitting the nail on the head. So, you know, when they need to remind a former Soviet Republic, let's just say, you know, Georgia, you know, it will be the GRU that will collect the information for the general staff and then organize, should be to Moscow, a limited deployment of military forces to, you know, stand up some kind of a militia in a place like South Australia.
00:16:44 CURTIS FOX
The GRU will have their coordinating information campaign to create a narrative for the intervention. Something along the lines of ethnic Russians are being brutalized. Vladimir Putin's regime has an obligation to act to protect its citizens abroad. The GRU will manufacture passports and distribute them to people in a place like Transnistria. That is the basis of hybrid warfare. Once they can create a little bit of maneuver room and enough political chaos, that's when they can actually start inserting elite forces and then perhaps stand up some proxy forces that can frustrate local military and police. And then if needed, they can accelerate and surge in the VDV to solidify their gains.
00:17:32 JACK GAINES
I've also seen where Russia also starts integrating with local criminals. Sure. Pay them off or bring in gangs to support them.
00:17:40 CURTIS FOX
No, I definitely wouldn't put it past them. They will do that. I think that they're mostly concerned about making sure that the local junta stays loyal and there are real consequences for junta that stabs them in the back.
00:17:55 JACK GAINES
Right. The Russians have done a pretty successful job of pushing the French out of Algeria and the Sahel. And some recent operations, because a lot of those look very much like hybrid operations to support a strong man in those countries taking power.
00:18:11 CURTIS FOX
I talk a little about that in chapter one. First off, the Soviets were very eager to conduct what we might consider hybrid operations in Africa. Their operatives, they always claimed that these were Russians that were on vacation, which is preposterous. And if they're not Russians, then they're Cuban proxies, places like Angola or Namibia. But the Russians are falling in on a Soviet tradition.
00:18:36 JACK GAINES
Do you want to talk a little bit about how hybrid operations is used pre -conflict or how it's used to maintain control of a population? Where would you like to go next?
00:18:49 CURTIS FOX
I think where I'd really like to go is to emphasize that what we're calling hybrid operations in a lot of ways is very similar to NATO doctrine in terms of preparatory activities. The term we use in the United States often is pre -crisis activities, which is a civil affairs specialty. You know, go into country, make friends, assess infrastructure, special forces. does this a lot. We're conducting joint training missions and helping them construct counterterrorism task forces. The next piece of that, though, is war is becoming imminent. And that's where we start conducting operational preparation of the environment. And that's where we actually start figuring out how would we put forces in countries, maybe starting with SOF, and then how would SOF prepare the battle space for the introduction of heavy ground forces? This is part of what the Russians do so well in hybrid warfare. And the final piece is what we would call advanced force operations, which means war has been declared and we now have to facilitate the movement of SOF into country now. And there has to be preliminary engagement and targeting in order to allow the units that need to go kinetic to be kinetic the moment they arrive on the ground, which means we need advanced forces to do all the intelligence work. in order to build those target packages beforehand. And that's the real heavy lifting secret sauce that the Russians did so well in the Crimean annexation. The difference is that the joint force commander in the United States can't just call the State Department and say, I need you to come up with a framework of sanctions so that it ties into this messaging campaign in order to support the actions that we're executing on the ground. In Moscow, the economics and the diplomatic initiatives and the information campaign are all coordinated, and they're coordinated in a way where they're supposed to complement one another so that you get this whole -of -government holistic approach to crisis management, let's say. And that's the real difference.
00:21:01 JACK GAINES
You're saying that they do a better job of integrating the political culture, economic, and military information aspects of an operation.
00:21:10 CURTIS FOX
Their system is not as big. That might be the best way to say it. And Vladimir Putin can just wave his wand and tell people this is what's going to happen. And so that's a piece of it. Yes. There's no congressional deliberation. There's no consulting of the big eight committee.
00:21:27 JACK GAINES
Sure. No NSC knife rights.
00:21:28 CURTIS FOX
rights.
00:21:31 CURTIS FOX
Yeah. Their goal is to coordinate all those things so that they complement one another. We're absolutely capable. withering sanctions on any country in the world and cutting off a country from the dollar is the kiss of death. 90 % of the global transactions are conducted in the dollar. But we don't coordinate that with ground operations. We are developing a common lexicon around irregular warfare in the United States where essentially we're saying that these are actions that are meant to compete for the goodwill and influence of the population itself. Sure.
00:22:09 JACK GAINES
How do you see the U .S. and its Western allies mitigating, managing, responding to Russian hybrid operations?
00:22:19 CURTIS FOX
I think Jim Mattis actually gave us the answer. And, you know, during the assault on Dior al -Zor in Syria, the Wagner mercenaries, they were coordinating mechanized force that included main battle tanks, and they were maneuvering on this outpost. And there were a number of U .S. soft personnel at that outpost. And they used existing deconfliction to tell them, hey, like you're coming across the Euphrates River. You're entering American zone. Stop. And it was Gerasimov himself who actually told Mattis that, no, those aren't Russian guys. Those aren't our guys. We can't control them. We don't know what they're doing. And Mattis had authorized days before a massive rack and stack of air power. at the disposal of those units on the ground. And the moment that he got a confirmation from Grasmap that those aren't Russian troops, he said, all right, well, they're all going to die. And they were pounded to death. The New York Times reported something like 200 Wagner mercenaries dying in that assault. And what the Russians wanted was for U .S. civilian leadership to waffle and to worry that we could be killing Russians, we could be starting a war, we have to be careful. But the recipe for success here is to give them no ambiguity as to what your response is going to be if they violate a red line. And then to stack the assets up as necessary to follow through on your ultimatum. So you tell them, look, if you cross this line, we're going to hammer you. And when they cross it, you hammer them. But let's say for the Russian troll farms, right? These are run by the GRU and they're meant to turn the temperature up in Western politics. The first piece is that we actually do have the capability to a certain extent to shut those farms down. If I were advising a policymaker, I would tell them that we need to think about using that to shut those farms down as needed. and identifying the people that are participating in those farms because they are disruptive. You know, democracies need to be able to function. I will also say that, I mean, this is a modern variation of a tactic that the Russians have been using. They've always been prying a crowbar into fissures between the European powers and frustrating their political process for centuries, specifically to make sure that there's never going to be a coalition that's actually strong enough to march east towards Russia.
00:24:51 JACK GAINES
Okay. We're going to cut the episode there, but stay tuned next week for the exciting conclusion of Curtis Fox and hybrid warfare.
00:25:11 JACK GAINES
Okay. Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U.S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes of One CA Podcast.
00:00:04 Part II Introduction
Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes.
00:01:17 CURTIS FOX
Yes, I think so. I will say I don't call out Syria specifically as a hybrid war. It has hybrid -ish characteristics. But it was almost a hybrid war. It lacks Aktivnost, Venezovnost, and Maskarovka. Sure.
00:01:42 CURTIS FOX
I mean, I tell you what, I speak Russian, and they're still hard for me to pronounce. Maybe the first term we can go into is Maskarovka, because this is one of the Russian's favorite terms. And that literally just translates to camouflage. This is the hidden hand approach that the Russians have in history done so well. They don't want these things to be directly attributable to Moscow. Activnost just literally means activity. And what they mean by that is all of the little things that you do in the background to try to frustrate. So you see it as Israel has tried to work with them as a governing body,you see it as Israel has tried to work with them as a governing body, or do you see it as Israel has ignored them as a governing body?
00:02:17 CURTIS FOX
to work with them as a
00:02:22 CURTIS FOX
body? Preferably, you'd have them stay in their barracks. And you want to set up blockades that frustrate public transit and encourage people to stay in their homes, or maybe come out and mass protest. preferably in front of city hall or a police station. If you look through the complications, you can actually find points and solutions.
00:02:43 CURTIS FOX
find points and solutions. Surprise. But it's surprise of, you know, like speedy movement. And what they mean by that is if they can use soft forces to rapidly deploy and establish some sort of a foothold on a limited number of key objectives. then they need the rapid maneuver of heavy ground forces to entrench those gains. This was the secret sauce that did so well in the Crimean annexation back in 2014. So the VDV, the Russian Airborne Services, those are really the elite trigger pullers of the Russian armed forces. And once a number of Spetsnaz battalions had advanced far enough up roads and blackaded positions coming into the peninsula, The VDB immediately used a number of secured local airstrips to move in forces in mass. And they spread rapidly throughout the peninsula and secured all those gains.
00:03:53 CURTIS FOX
There's some real similarities in the way Russia continues to manipulate and maintain influence in Georgia. and the Serbian approach in Bosnia. That's probably where they get a lot of these ideas from. If you look at Georgia, there's an autonomous enclave called South Asatia, and then another one called the Bukazia, which is right up on the coast of the Black Sea. And the Russians would have us believe that these enclaves had ethnic Russians in them, that they would have you believe that they don't want anything to do with that government. And they want to remain segmented off and autonomous from the country with no trade and political independence.
00:04:48 CURTIS FOX
Sure. Yeah. Vladimir Putin actually talks about it as a genuine tragedy that these are Russian citizens that have been scattered across the globe and isolated from the government in their mother country. Never really offers so many resources to come home if it's really that big of a tragedy. And they don't seem to want to migrate to Russia on their own dime. But this being a civil affairs podcast, it's probably also worthy to point out something the Russians do very well. is they figure out what influencers have their hands on which buttons. They're very good at understanding which individuals have access to what information and which individuals run X, Y, and Z departments and who would it be good to make friends with.
00:05:51 CURTIS FOX
I tell you what, my publisher made me take out three appendices and an additional chapter. I actually wrote a chapter. It was a comparative glance on U .S. doctrine to highlight how is the Russian apparatus, the political apparatus, how do they actually create authorizations for these interventions? And then, you know, how do they actually deploy military force from the available units that they have in SOF? And then I compared that to, you know, how we would do it in the United States. So that whole chapter was removed. And then I had separate appendices on the Soviet arsenal that Russia inherited in 1991, including the nuclear ordinance. Oh, my gosh. And then I had an appendice on the state procurement programs, GPV 2020 and 2027. And I go through. All the hardware that they've been purchasing over the last 10, 12 years, you know, for Army, Navy, Air Force, Strategic Rocket Forces.
00:07:00 SPEAKER_03
But I also see Russia exporting the strategy. It seems like Iran is pulling strings for the Houthis to do upper -level trade -style operations. And they've got Hezbollah doing some forms of operations in support of Hamas. To me,
00:07:01 SPEAKER_02
see Russia
00:07:01 CURTIS FOX
exporting the strategy. It seems
00:07:06 CURTIS FOX
the Houthis to do upper -level trade
00:07:12 CURTIS FOX
they've got Hezbollah doing some forms
00:07:17 SPEAKER_03
me, it seems like Russian style of hybrid warfare has been exported to... Demonstrate almost a black mirror to the U .S. goals of stability and trade by creating conditions that are always unstable,
00:07:19 CURTIS FOX
style of
00:07:23 CURTIS FOX
almost a black mirror to the U .S. goals of stability and trade by creating conditions that are always unstable, are always right at a low level of conflict that allows for a lot of criminality.
00:07:32 SPEAKER_03
always right at a low level of conflict that allows for a lot of criminality. And that opened that country region up to influence and Arnold Garck's taking advantage of resources and having a strong man in power. It seems like that notion has been exported.
00:07:38 CURTIS FOX
that opened that country region up
00:07:43 CURTIS FOX
Garck's taking advantage of resources and having a strong man in power.
00:07:48 SPEAKER_02
like that notion has been
00:08:03 CURTIS FOX
It's a little bit of that. The other issue that they're running into is they just have nobody they can recruit into the ranks. They have an inverted demographic in their country, and so they just have no healthy young people that can serve as soldiers. So they can go through and round up the homeless, and they can go through the prisons, and they can round those people up. They have a vicious, vicious narcotics crisis in Russia, and they can put people who are addicted. to substances in the armed forces, and you can throw those people in this can of fodder. And that level of threat might actually create conditions for Iran to allow.
00:08:34 SPEAKER_03
And that level of threat might actually create conditions for Iran to allow. And they certainly don't make good elite light infantry.
00:08:38 CURTIS FOX
allow. And they certainly don't make good elite light infantry. So they're in a real pickle as far as the point of these forces going. Now, your one example with Syria and the Wagner group charging against the special forces camp,
00:08:44 SPEAKER_03
point of these forces going. Now, your one example with Syria and the Wagner group charging against the special forces camp, one thing that you brought up, and that is that the response was obvious and painful.
00:08:46 CURTIS FOX
and the
00:08:50 CURTIS FOX
camp, one
00:08:57 SPEAKER_03
Does that mean that when we see hybrid operations going on, not only do we have to counter the operation, but we have to kind of embarrass Russians for doing it?
00:09:01 CURTIS FOX
do we have to counter the operation, but we have to kind of embarrass Russians for doing it? I don't really have any direct evidence that they wouldn't have put people from an Asian disposition into, you know, let's say the 10th Spetsnaz Brigade. But the big one to watch are the Chechens. The ruling family in Chechnya is allied with Vladimir Putin. Very willing to contribute troops. But one of the unspoken realities about that is that the more Chechens are organized into the Vostok and Zapad battalions and pushed into foreign wars, the fewer Chechens there are at home to cause trouble for Moscow. And there are other ethnicities that start getting uppity. Moscow will absolutely adopt similar tactics.
00:09:57 CURTIS FOX
It's definitely on Putin's mind. But the goal is, first off, those individuals are loyal to the family. And Putin basically rules Chechnya through a puppet governor, let's say. It operates almost as an autonomous vassal state. And so they would first have to fight their own people. And then the second issue is that Moscow has absolutely no qualms about sending. a special missions unit down there to round somebody up in their home. I mean, you can go to their Wikipedia page and they're open and honest about saying they still conduct operations in Chechnya all the time.
00:10:37 CURTIS FOX
Actively hunting people down and they're on the southern end of Chechnya and those guys will have no problem going up there and getting them.
00:10:48 SPEAKER_02
It's less likely right now.
00:10:56 CURTIS FOX
Right. The one thing that could create a real separatist movement in Chechnya is if Kardarov and his cronies decide that they're just going to switch allegiances. If he decides that Putin is weak or that serving Moscow is no longer in the family interest, that would change everything.
00:11:20 SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah. We're a little off track.
00:11:26 CURTIS FOX
Sure. Well, and, you know, Chechnya is a good place to start for this because the first and second Chechen wars were so taxing on Russian international standing and resources and manpower and so embarrassing for Moscow that they realized they needed to come up with another way to do this. They needed a way that would limit their investment, limit their risks, limit their attribution. And let's say stack the deck in their favor. So it was more likely that they could slam the outcome to victory.
00:12:08 SPEAKER_03
Like so many people tied to their chair. That is.
00:12:29 CURTIS FOX
Yes. So let me kind of outline the framework here, I guess, and I think I'll answer your question. There is a ruling class in Russia of about 200 individuals. Those 200 individuals, they call themselves Slovy. Most of them were educated during the Soviet era. The education system collapsed when the Soviet Union collapsed and it was never rebuilt. And so their talent pool that is constantly getting smaller and dwindling. A lot of these guys are into their mid -70s now. Some of them, like Sergei Lavrov, came from the Foreign Service, but a lot of them are simply KGB men like Putin.
00:13:11 CURTIS FOX
No. Yeah, they're not oligarchs, for sure. They're only oligarchs in the fact that they wield influence. Basically, the promise that Vladimir Putin made to the Russian elites when they started this project. when he came to power as president, was that, look, if you back me, everybody's going to do very well. We will all get wealthy. But if you oppose me, that's a great way to die.
00:13:40 CURTIS FOX
And he is not the return of Joseph Stalin. He is not that powerful. He is Russia's most important power broker. He gained power by playing all of these different factions off one another. A lot of the oligarchs that were Russian Soviet officials that seized state assets after the Soviet Union collapsed, and that's where they got their money. Those individuals are outside the rule and click, but they absolutely realize if they oppose the rule and click, they could wake up in the morning and slip on some bullets in the shower, and that'll be the end of them.
00:14:15 CURTIS FOX
So hybrid warfare. It evolved simply because the people that make decisions in Russia understand how military intelligence works to a certain extent, and they know how military intelligence is supposed to support active combat. They're basically strategic reconnaissance assets for each brigades, in particular, our Russian military district. So think of Marine Force Recon or maybe the 75th Ranger Regiment. Well, here's a question for you.
00:14:47 SPEAKER_03
a question for you. Could they muster a credible threat against Europe? Because I was just talking to the GRU,
00:14:50 CURTIS FOX
Because I was just talking to the GRU, which is the Military Intelligence Service. And the GRU is actually the Russians' most effective intelligence agency. I was talking to Albert Augustino of 5th Corps, and it seems that the army is going towards more large division -on -division type of training.
00:15:00 SPEAKER_03
I was talking to Albert Augustino of 5th Corps, and it seems that the army is going towards more large division -on -division type of training.
00:15:07 CURTIS FOX
-on -division type of
00:15:09 SPEAKER_03
And I was asking, of course, a fight. You believe that that actual 600 ,000 military force could actually become a viable threat to Europe?
00:15:19 CURTIS FOX
So the GRU is traditionally responsible for planning these interventions. They planned the Russo -Georgian War. They planned the annexation of Crimea. They probably planned the war in Donbass. And we know they planned Syria. And they did pretty well in planning all those things because that's their job.
00:16:17 CURTIS FOX
Exactly. I think you're hitting the nail on the head. So, you know, when they need to remind a former Soviet Republic, let's just say, you know, Georgia, you know, it will be the GRU that will collect the information for the general staff and then organize, should be to Moscow, a limited deployment of military forces to stand up some kind of a militia in a place like Southwest Asia. And the GRU will have their coordinating information campaign to create a narrative for the intervention.
00:16:44 CURTIS FOX
GRU will have their coordinating information campaign to create a narrative for the intervention.
00:16:51 SPEAKER_03
And that's 500 pages to get to that point.
00:16:52 CURTIS FOX
500 pages to get to that point. Vladimir Putin's regime has an obligation to act to protect its citizens abroad. The GRU will manufacture passports and distribute them to people in a place like Transnistria. That is the basis of hybrid warfare. Once they can create a little bit of maneuver around enough political chaos, that's when they can actually start inserting elite forces and then perhaps stand up some proxy forces that can frustrate local military and police. And then if needed, they can accelerate and surge in the VDV to solidify their gains. You know,
00:17:31 SPEAKER_03
know, it's funny. I was just arguing that use of KPOC needs to take the 95th and create an active duty element within. use of CAPOC, make it both a hybrid command corps that has active duty and reserves.
00:17:40 CURTIS FOX
corps that has active duty and reserves. They will do that. And start just running CA as its own element versus tied into SOF.
00:17:44 SPEAKER_03
And start just running CA as its own element versus tied into SOF.
00:17:46 CURTIS FOX
its own element versus tied into SOF. And there are real consequences for junta that stabs in the back. Yeah.
00:18:11 SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and the CA community, they're all usually with masters or doctorates,
00:18:12 SPEAKER_03
and the CA community, they're
00:18:13 CURTIS FOX
all usually
00:18:15 SPEAKER_03
with masters
00:18:15 CURTIS FOX
or doctorates, and they are usually traveling the world.
00:18:16 SPEAKER_03
doctorates, and they are usually traveling the world. So I can't talk down.
00:18:17 CURTIS FOX
traveling the world. So I can't talk down. You know, their operatives, they always claimed that these were Russians that were on vacation, which is just preposterous. And if they're not Russians, then they're Cuban proxies, places like Angola or Namibia. But the Russians are falling in on a Soviet tradition.
00:18:48 SPEAKER_03
Right. That's half my career.
00:18:49 CURTIS FOX
I think there's a home for civil affairs outside of Assad. And I think that civil affairs should create a functional specialty that focuses on post -work stabilization and reconstruction.
00:18:51 SPEAKER_03
think there's a home for civil affairs outside of Assad. And I think that civil affairs should create a functional specialty that focuses on post -work stabilization and reconstruction.
00:19:01 CURTIS FOX
and reconstruction. I was just listening to Petraeus, and he was discussing how when he was in Iraq,
00:19:03 SPEAKER_03
was just listening to Petraeus, and he was discussing how when he was in Iraq, he was listening to the... to the plans for the campaign, and he's like, well, where's the post -conflict stabilization and reconstruction plan? And I just kind of waved him off, and he's like, well, that's pretty important. And I've heard other people say the same thing. What does Charlie Wilson say, that we suck at the endgame? But that's a market gap. That's a market gap that civil affairs, if they were to go to the 59 school and become planners and focus just on the post -conflict operations and stabilization...
00:19:09 CURTIS FOX
plans for the campaign, and he's like, well, where's the post -conflict stabilization and reconstruction plan? And I just kind of waved him off, and he's like, well, that's pretty important. And I've heard other people say the same thing. What does Charlie Wilson say, that we suck at the endgame? But that's a market gap.
00:19:30 CURTIS FOX
and focus just on the post -conflict operations and stabilization...
00:19:35 SPEAKER_03
It would actually create values that the CA component would then build out.
00:19:35 CURTIS FOX
actually create values that the CA component would then build out.
00:19:37 SPEAKER_03
would then build
00:19:40 CURTIS FOX
This is part of what the Russians do so well in hybrid warfare. And the final piece is what we would call advanced force operations, which means war has been declared, and we now have to facilitate the movement of SOF into country now. And there has to be preliminary engagement and targeting. Right. You know, it's one thing that I've learned to respect about Peace Corps is that they send their people out,
00:20:05 SPEAKER_03
it's one thing that I've learned to respect about Peace Corps is that they send their people out, and it's their force of personality that helps them survive.
00:20:08 CURTIS FOX
they send their people out, and it's their force of personality
00:20:10 SPEAKER_03
it's their force of personality that helps them survive. And I think that if we had that same notion where we're training people in blunt force, but if we had them do foreign missions where they just had to... survive off their wits and their ability to build relations.
00:20:12 CURTIS FOX
them survive.
00:20:16 CURTIS FOX
notion where we're training people in blunt force, but if we had them do foreign missions where they just had to... survive off their wits and their ability to build relations. That would shift the thinking from tactical to relational conflict management, as well as how to go past force management to how do we build partners and allies so that they can also be with us in achieving a foreign policy objective.
00:20:26 SPEAKER_03
would shift the thinking from tactical to relational conflict
00:20:27 CURTIS FOX
from tactical to relational conflict management, as well as how to go past force management to how do we build partners and allies so that they can also be with us in achieving
00:20:31 SPEAKER_03
management, as well as how to go past force management to ahow do we build partners and allies so that they can also be with us in achieving a foreign policy objective.
00:20:41 CURTIS FOX
a foreign policy objective. So anyway, we're gunning down two hours, so I'm going to let you go. another so that you get this whole of government holistic approach. Exciting conclusion of Curtis Fox and hybrid warfare.
00:20:48 SPEAKER_03
gunning down two hours, so I'm going to let you go.
00:20:56 SPEAKER_03
conclusion of Curtis Fox and hybrid warfare.
00:20:57 CURTIS FOX
of Curtis Fox and hybrid warfare. And that's the real difference.
00:21:09 CURTIS FOX
Yeah. First off their, their system is, it's not as big. Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like, subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform.
00:21:13 SPEAKER_03
for listening. If you get a chance, please like, subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting at gmail .com.
00:21:21 CURTIS FOX
if you're interested in coming
00:21:21 SPEAKER_02
on the show or
00:21:22 CURTIS FOX
hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting at gmail .com.
00:21:27 SPEAKER_03
I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes.
00:21:29 SPEAKER_02
CA Association website in the show notes.
00:21:31 SPEAKER_03
And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U .S.
00:21:31 SPEAKER_02
now, most
00:21:33 CURTIS FOX
currently out in the
00:21:36 CURTIS FOX
or leadership to forward U .S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes once CA podcasts are conducted in the dollar.
00:21:42 SPEAKER_03
is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes once
00:21:46 CURTIS FOX
CA podcasts are conducted in the dollar.
00:21:47 SPEAKER_03
CA podcasts are conducted
00:21:49 CURTIS FOX
But we don't coordinate that with ground operations. We are developing a common lexicon around irregular warfare. In the United States, we're essentially saying that these are actions that are meant to compete for the goodwill and influence of the population itself.
00:22:19 SPEAKER_02
I think Jim Mattis actually gave us the answer.
00:22:20 CURTIS FOX
Mattis actually gave us the answer. And, you know, during the assaults on Dior al -Zor in Syria, the Wagner mercenaries, they were coordinating mechanized force that included main battle tanks, and they were maneuvering on this outpost. And there were a number of U .S. soft personnel at that outpost, and they used existing deconfliction to tell them, hey, like, you're coming across the Euphrates River, you're entering American zone, stop. It was Gerasimov himself who actually told Mattis that, no, those aren't Russian guys. Those aren't our guys. We can't control them. We don't know what they're doing. And Mattis had authorized days before a massive rack and stack of air power at the disposal of those units on the ground. And the moment that he got a confirmation from Gerasimov that those aren't Russian troops, he said, all right, well, they're all going to die. And they were pounded to death. The New York Times reported something like 200 Wagner mercenaries dying in that assault. And what the Russians wanted was for U .S. civilian leadership to waffle and to worry that we could be killing Russians, we could be starting a war, we have to be careful. But the recipe for success here is to give them no ambiguity as to what your response is going to be if they violate a red line. And then to stack the assets up as necessary to follow through on your ultimatum. So you tell them, look, if you cross this line, we're going to hammer you. And when they cross it, you hammer them. But let's say for the Russian troll farms, right? These are run by the GRU and they're meant to turn the temperature up in Western politics. The first piece is that we actually do have the capability to a certain extent to shut those farms down. If I were advising a policymaker, I would tell them that we need to think about using that to shut those farms down as needed and identifying the people that are participating in those farms because they are disruptive. You know, democracies need to be able to function. I will also say that, I mean, this is a modern variation of a tactic that the Russians have been using. They've always been prying a crowbar into fissures between the European groups. powers and frustrating their political process for centuries, specifically to make sure that there's never going to be a coalition that's actually strong enough to march east towards Russia.
Tuesday Jan 02, 2024
Tuesday Jan 02, 2024
Today we welcome Albert Augustine, the G9 at V Corps.
Albert came on the show to discuss the changes in army training in Europe and how they impact civil affairs.
Additionally, we discuss how CA members can get a tour and how to prepare for a gig at V Corps or in Europe.
One CA Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special Thanks to Backing Track Music for sharing Track C of Big Band Blues. You can find it at https://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=bWzuzLgde28
Tuesday Dec 26, 2023
Tuesday Dec 26, 2023
Welcome to the One CA Podcast.
This week, we introduce the USMC 1st CAG Human Dimension Podcast.
This is the first pilot episode 1st and hosted by Major Searls, with guests including Major Antonov, Captain Johnson, and Staff Sergeant Camos. The Marines discussed their experiences at Operation BRIGHT STAR 2023.
The original is located at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpdSA_Z7pAs.
One CA is a product of the civil affairs association
and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.
We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of US foreign relations.
To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com
or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org
I'll have those in the show notes.
Lastly, special thanks to 90sHipHop Instrumental for sharing a sample of the song Jump Around by House of Pain. You can find the source at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szn7VARgmyo
Tuesday Dec 19, 2023
Tuesday Dec 19, 2023
Today, we welcome back to the second half of the interview with retired Col. Robert Curris, who drafted the opinion piece, "The Army needs to invest in Psychological Operations and not cut them." in the November first edition of the Military Times:
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/2023/11/01/the-army-needs-to-invest-in-psychological-operations-not-cut-them/
This is the first time I have had the honor of bringing in an expert on Psychological Operations. With the Army Reserve combining some Civil Affairs, Information Operations, and PSYOP commands, this is an excellent opportunity to give the community a voice.
Robert Curris Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-curris-29887188
One CA Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks for Jeffrey Friedman and Water Tower Music for todays theme song "OOOH". Found at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ksJXPrZfk
Tuesday Dec 12, 2023
Tuesday Dec 12, 2023
Today, we welcome retired Col. Robert Curris, who drafted the opinion piece, "The Army needs to invest in Psychological Operations and not cut them." in the November first edition of the Military Times:
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/2023/11/01/the-army-needs-to-invest-in-psychological-operations-not-cut-them/
This is the first time I have had the honor of bringing in an expert on Psychological Operations. With the Army Reserve combining some Civil Affairs, Information Operations, and PSYOP commands, this is an excellent opportunity to give the community a voice.
Robert Curris Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-curris-29887188
One CA Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks for Jeffrey Friedman and Water Tower Music for todays theme song "OOOH". Found at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ksJXPrZfk
Tuesday Dec 05, 2023
Tuesday Dec 05, 2023
Welcome to the One CA Podcast.
Today, we are rebroadcasting a Carnegie Connects interview with retired General David Petraeus about his new book and current world events.
I will have a link to the source in the show notes.
Carnegie interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=druqmRdjOow
One CA Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks to Broke For Free for releasing the song "Something Elated." Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxh4S2A8Q4U
Tuesday Nov 21, 2023
Tuesday Nov 21, 2023
Please welcome Angie Smith, environmental Scientist and Civil Affairs Officer.
Angie and her team travel globally to partner nations to assess resource use and advise on sustainable development.
Her team has helped countries like the Marshal Islands with resource management to mitigate climate change.
In this episode, Angie will talk about her trade, and how it helps the U.S. build foreign relations with the international community.
In a future episode, she will return with their new partner, Wisconsin University.
One CA Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks to Jimmy Eden Moon for sharing the compilation "Hip Hop 1995 XIII Instrumentals." Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vnXH18FMoc
Tuesday Nov 14, 2023
Tuesday Nov 14, 2023
Welcome to One CA Podcast. This episode is from the archives. The former host, John McElligott traveled to AUSA in 2018 and interviewed participants on Civil Affairs. It's a quick episode, but a fun one for the Veteran's Memorial Weekend.
One Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks to Broke For Free for releasing the song "Something Elated" (No Copyright Music). Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxh4S2A8Q4U
Tuesday Nov 07, 2023
Tuesday Nov 07, 2023
Recently, I organized a panel discussion on Taiwan with the Joint Staff SMA program (Strategic Multilayer Assessment), which is similar to a think tank but within the DOD.
They bring in people to present their work and discuss national security.
I had reached out to Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan at the American Enterprise Institute and thought it would be good to include SMA in the discussion.
Mariah Yager is running the SMA portion, and I am guiding the discussion. This is a two-part episode, so enjoy.
One Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks to Perri Yellow Bird for the song "Tradish," retrieved from:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TKmaoHBI7A
Tuesday Oct 31, 2023
Tuesday Oct 31, 2023
Recently, I organized a panel discussion on Taiwan with the Joint Staff SMA program (Strategic Multilayer Assessment), which is similar to a think tank but within the DOD.
They bring in people to present their work and discuss national security.
I had reached out to Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan at the American Enterprise Institute and decided to include SMA in the discussion.
Mariah Yager is running the SMA portion, and I am guiding the discussion.
This is a two-part episode, so enjoy.
One Podcast aims to inspire people interested in working on-ground to forward U.S. foreign policy.
We bring in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences and recommendations for working the "last three feet" of foreign relations.
Have a story to tell? Email us to either speak or guest-host at: capodcasting@gmail.com
One CA Podcast is a product of the Civil Affairs Association: https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/
Special thanks to Perri Yellow Bird for the song "Tradish," retrieved from:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TKmaoHBI7A